Season 1 |
Bonus Episode 2: How to seize the right opportunities for our goals
[00:00:00] Rori: Emilia, hello!
[00:00:01] Emilia: Hi Rori.
[00:00:02] Rori: Oh my gosh, Francine!
[00:00:04] Emilia: Oh my God. I so admire Francine's patience
[00:00:08] Rori: Oh, yeah, it's really inspiring how she just, keeps going she has this major goal of improving health and well being for tribal communities. And then when she's doing something that's really frustrating, like, repeatedly educating people about how to work with tribal communities. that could be a very, draining task to do, but she finds her way through it
[00:00:33] Emilia: And I mean, she says it herself. I don't mind being a broken record if that's going to affect the way these people help or interact with the community, that's a good, outcome.
[00:00:44] Rori: Hi, Science Wise listeners.
It's Rori and Emilia here again, and we are talking about what we learned. We're trying to pull out those take home lessons From our conversation with Dr. Francine Gachupin. So, Emilia, what is your number one take home lesson?
[00:01:01] Emilia: I think for me is finding what are the things that are important for you. Her community is really important and improving health outcomes in her community is really important. and that is really what drives her. And she doesn't mind if she says to herself, I don't mind if I sound like a broken record when I need meet new people and I have to educate them on tribal communities, I will do it because I know that if, if that person's interactions with the community improves, then that's, that's good.
And, and I will do it over and over again and I think that's, that's something that requires a lot of patience and perseverance and she has that because she's always aware of what, what is the, what is her goal.
[00:01:49] Rori: Yeah. It's like knowing her genuine, heartfelt goal is motivating and inspiring to her and kind of gives her this like, you know, reservoir of energy to do even like repetitive things like educating white people about how to work in collaboration with tribal communities. Like over and over.
[00:02:09] Emilia: Totally agree! and for me, the second one is how she just took advantage of a bunch of opportunities that came her way.
[00:02:18] Rori: Totally! I mean, it was so interesting, even from high school when she was in this like super low resource high school, like her teachers were not interested in educating her and she just like, when an opportunity would come that she could learn something in a different context, she like went for it.
[00:02:34] Emilia: Or that time when she was at the doctor for something else and then she told the doctor that she was graduating college.
[00:02:40] Rori: Uh huh.
[00:02:40] Emilia: The doctor he phoned somebody at the NIH and said, Francine, you should talk to this person and she came out of that with the job
[00:02:48] Rori: What a wild way to get a job and she was ready to do it. She was like, Oh, I'm graduating college this is an amazing job opportunity. It will help with, you know, it's aligned with her goal of improving health and wellbeing in tribal communities and it's a place where she could learn a bunch of like molecular biology at the NIH and so she was just like, yes, opportunity it's aligned with what I want to do. Go for it.
[00:03:13] Emilia: I mean, she also did a Master's of public health during her PhD.
[00:03:17] Rori: Super unusual. As her, advisors, indicated when they were like, you'll never finish. But she did.
[00:03:24] Emilia: She did. There were some bumps along the way. Uh, like for instance, she was doing a PhD in pop the population genetics. Uh, and, and you know, there were a bunch of politics around that and at the end of her PhD mm-hmm with the HGDP dataset and, people referring to populations as going extinct she had done all this work and it was not going to be publishable at the end because she had done her master's in public health, she could pivot.
[00:03:55] Rori: Right. Right. And I think this is, this is another thing that's amazing. Like, she took opportunities and she also left things. Like, she was like, okay. You know, she wanted to do pop gen again, you know, centering tribal communities. And then in this like bio colonial context that grew up around her as she was doing her PhD wasn't possible and she left.
She was like, okay, I'm not doing pop gen then. I can't do it in this context anymore. I'll pivot and I will leave this thing that I've put a ton of effort into because it's, it's not the right thing anymore.
[00:04:28] Emilia: Yeah and I think for our listeners, if something like that happened to any other PhD, it could be devastating.
[00:04:35] Rori: Oh, yeah,
[00:04:36] Emilia: Could, but Francine and I think this goes back to maybe how she grew up, that she was faced, she faced a problem and she dealt with it and found a solution.
[00:04:49] Rori: yeah, we'll get into more about how she grew up. Um, but she said something interesting, too. Like, she said that her advice early career scientists is to be really discerning with the opportunities that come your way. So, even as she's, like, taking opportunities, leaving opportunities, she also reminds us that many opportunities will come your way and they'll come more than once. So you don't have to take an opportunity if it's not aligned with your genuine goals or if it's not going to work for you because it'll circle back around or there'll be another one that'll come by.
[00:05:22] Emilia: I think one of the things that she mentions is that, when you have an opportunity, think about whether it fits your ultimate goal and, and yeah, decide whether that's good for you or not.
[00:05:36] Rori: Totally. But let's get back to what you were saying, Emilia, about how the way that she grew up really gave her some gifts as a scientist and a public health researcher later in her career.
[00:05:49] Emilia: The way she talked about her experience, growing up and helping with the farm, caring for other people, watching her dad being so kind to other people I think she developed a strong work ethic.
She developed patience because, you know, you have to wait for your crops to grow up and, you have to take care of them
[00:06:13] Rori: Yeah, and someone even commented on that, right? Somebody was like, oh, you're such so patient in your work with the tribal epidemiology centers. It's because of how you grew up farming.
[00:06:22] Emilia: and obviously farming, also poses a lot of challenges and she told us about, you know, when the rodents were eating their food and she and her sister rolled up their sleeves and had to build a foundation, you know, with concrete and they did it and it was like, oh, we have this problem, let's solve it. And they did.
[00:06:41] Rori: Clearly, like, being able to, just solve a problem without getting too intimidated or worked up is important for like daily science life. Like, we have problems all the time that we need to solve and I'm sure in these pivotal moments, like when she didn't get publications from her PhD, being able to be like, okay, that's not working I've got to find a solution. Let's go.
[00:07:04] Emilia: All these qualities have been really helpful in her career.
[00:07:08] Rori: Yeah, What about you, Emilia? What's something about the way you grew up that has, impacted you as a scientist and helped you in academia?
[00:07:10] Emilia: I would say being an immigrant is helpful because you know how to move, which we do a lot in academia. Also, you know, just watching my parents my parents work every day, waking up, even when they were sick, they had to go to work. I think that really, gave me some perspective.So whenever I feel lazy in my own work, I'm like, Oh my God, remember your parents. So that's always something I feel a little bit guilty. I'm like, Oh, I need to be as hardworking as my parents. And
[00:07:47] Rori: We should, we should return that to this idea in another episode too. Like the idea of hard work and also taking care of ourselves. But go on.
[00:07:54] Emilia: And I would say community. I don't think I know how to be alone. And I think that comes because, you know, I have, I come from a big family. My parents always had people over on the weekends they would just come to eat, to talk, just being around people I really enjoy. I try to also, enjoy being around the people that I work with.
I like to collaborate. I don't like to work by myself and I like to collaborate with people I like. I like to collaborate with you. I like to collaborate with my colleagues, Dr. Maria Avilargos and Flora Jay. I love making science with people I like.
[00:08:39] Rori: I mean, you've done very well with that. Like that's been a good thing for you in your academic life. You and Maria and Flora together got the Human Frontiers Research Grant, and that's huge.
[00:08:50] Emilia: Yeah, I try to find opportunities to work that help me maintain the communities that I already have is something you and I have in common. Obviously, we're doing this podcast together like working with Rori!
[00:09:03] Rori: Working with Emilia is a dream,
[00:09:04] Emilia: What about your upbringing has helped you?
[00:09:07] Rori: I grew up in a big family too, and I also don't like being alone. So, you know, creating a lab that I love and I love working with is important to me. Doing collaborations with you and with other people is important to me. But another way that I grew up that is not obviously a match for academia, but I think it actually really is, is that I'm a military brat. My dad was in the Navy and, even though they're, you know, politically divergent, I think that military culture and academia are very similar there's the culture of moving frequently, obviously, the idea that you make friends through your work and you kind of circle through a very strong sense of hierarchy, let's be real. Even if academia kind of doesn't fully embrace that, it's very much embedded and so I think growing up in a military family the culture of academia felt a little familiar to me actually, and that made it easier for me to learn to navigate and it also made it easier for me to figure out the parts that I, that don't align with how I want to live with my life and figure out how to work around them.
[00:10:15] Emilia: that's interesting and something I would like to hear more about for sure. What are these workarounds?
[00:10:20] Rori: Okay. Okay. We'll have to do some more Science Wise episodes then.
Thank you so much for chatting with me, Emilia. And thank you to Francine for all of the pearls of wisdom.
[00:10:29] Emilia: Thank you, Francine and Rori. Thank you for making community with me.
[00:10:33] Rori: It is my pleasure, Emilia. You know that. Okay, everybody. We'll catch you next episode.
[00:00:01] Emilia: Hi Rori.
[00:00:02] Rori: Oh my gosh, Francine!
[00:00:04] Emilia: Oh my God. I so admire Francine's patience
[00:00:08] Rori: Oh, yeah, it's really inspiring how she just, keeps going she has this major goal of improving health and well being for tribal communities. And then when she's doing something that's really frustrating, like, repeatedly educating people about how to work with tribal communities. that could be a very, draining task to do, but she finds her way through it
[00:00:33] Emilia: And I mean, she says it herself. I don't mind being a broken record if that's going to affect the way these people help or interact with the community, that's a good, outcome.
[00:00:44] Rori: Hi, Science Wise listeners.
It's Rori and Emilia here again, and we are talking about what we learned. We're trying to pull out those take home lessons From our conversation with Dr. Francine Gachupin. So, Emilia, what is your number one take home lesson?
[00:01:01] Emilia: I think for me is finding what are the things that are important for you. Her community is really important and improving health outcomes in her community is really important. and that is really what drives her. And she doesn't mind if she says to herself, I don't mind if I sound like a broken record when I need meet new people and I have to educate them on tribal communities, I will do it because I know that if, if that person's interactions with the community improves, then that's, that's good.
And, and I will do it over and over again and I think that's, that's something that requires a lot of patience and perseverance and she has that because she's always aware of what, what is the, what is her goal.
[00:01:49] Rori: Yeah. It's like knowing her genuine, heartfelt goal is motivating and inspiring to her and kind of gives her this like, you know, reservoir of energy to do even like repetitive things like educating white people about how to work in collaboration with tribal communities. Like over and over.
[00:02:09] Emilia: Totally agree! and for me, the second one is how she just took advantage of a bunch of opportunities that came her way.
[00:02:18] Rori: Totally! I mean, it was so interesting, even from high school when she was in this like super low resource high school, like her teachers were not interested in educating her and she just like, when an opportunity would come that she could learn something in a different context, she like went for it.
[00:02:34] Emilia: Or that time when she was at the doctor for something else and then she told the doctor that she was graduating college.
[00:02:40] Rori: Uh huh.
[00:02:40] Emilia: The doctor he phoned somebody at the NIH and said, Francine, you should talk to this person and she came out of that with the job
[00:02:48] Rori: What a wild way to get a job and she was ready to do it. She was like, Oh, I'm graduating college this is an amazing job opportunity. It will help with, you know, it's aligned with her goal of improving health and wellbeing in tribal communities and it's a place where she could learn a bunch of like molecular biology at the NIH and so she was just like, yes, opportunity it's aligned with what I want to do. Go for it.
[00:03:13] Emilia: I mean, she also did a Master's of public health during her PhD.
[00:03:17] Rori: Super unusual. As her, advisors, indicated when they were like, you'll never finish. But she did.
[00:03:24] Emilia: She did. There were some bumps along the way. Uh, like for instance, she was doing a PhD in pop the population genetics. Uh, and, and you know, there were a bunch of politics around that and at the end of her PhD mm-hmm with the HGDP dataset and, people referring to populations as going extinct she had done all this work and it was not going to be publishable at the end because she had done her master's in public health, she could pivot.
[00:03:55] Rori: Right. Right. And I think this is, this is another thing that's amazing. Like, she took opportunities and she also left things. Like, she was like, okay. You know, she wanted to do pop gen again, you know, centering tribal communities. And then in this like bio colonial context that grew up around her as she was doing her PhD wasn't possible and she left.
She was like, okay, I'm not doing pop gen then. I can't do it in this context anymore. I'll pivot and I will leave this thing that I've put a ton of effort into because it's, it's not the right thing anymore.
[00:04:28] Emilia: Yeah and I think for our listeners, if something like that happened to any other PhD, it could be devastating.
[00:04:35] Rori: Oh, yeah,
[00:04:36] Emilia: Could, but Francine and I think this goes back to maybe how she grew up, that she was faced, she faced a problem and she dealt with it and found a solution.
[00:04:49] Rori: yeah, we'll get into more about how she grew up. Um, but she said something interesting, too. Like, she said that her advice early career scientists is to be really discerning with the opportunities that come your way. So, even as she's, like, taking opportunities, leaving opportunities, she also reminds us that many opportunities will come your way and they'll come more than once. So you don't have to take an opportunity if it's not aligned with your genuine goals or if it's not going to work for you because it'll circle back around or there'll be another one that'll come by.
[00:05:22] Emilia: I think one of the things that she mentions is that, when you have an opportunity, think about whether it fits your ultimate goal and, and yeah, decide whether that's good for you or not.
[00:05:36] Rori: Totally. But let's get back to what you were saying, Emilia, about how the way that she grew up really gave her some gifts as a scientist and a public health researcher later in her career.
[00:05:49] Emilia: The way she talked about her experience, growing up and helping with the farm, caring for other people, watching her dad being so kind to other people I think she developed a strong work ethic.
She developed patience because, you know, you have to wait for your crops to grow up and, you have to take care of them
[00:06:13] Rori: Yeah, and someone even commented on that, right? Somebody was like, oh, you're such so patient in your work with the tribal epidemiology centers. It's because of how you grew up farming.
[00:06:22] Emilia: and obviously farming, also poses a lot of challenges and she told us about, you know, when the rodents were eating their food and she and her sister rolled up their sleeves and had to build a foundation, you know, with concrete and they did it and it was like, oh, we have this problem, let's solve it. And they did.
[00:06:41] Rori: Clearly, like, being able to, just solve a problem without getting too intimidated or worked up is important for like daily science life. Like, we have problems all the time that we need to solve and I'm sure in these pivotal moments, like when she didn't get publications from her PhD, being able to be like, okay, that's not working I've got to find a solution. Let's go.
[00:07:04] Emilia: All these qualities have been really helpful in her career.
[00:07:08] Rori: Yeah, What about you, Emilia? What's something about the way you grew up that has, impacted you as a scientist and helped you in academia?
[00:07:10] Emilia: I would say being an immigrant is helpful because you know how to move, which we do a lot in academia. Also, you know, just watching my parents my parents work every day, waking up, even when they were sick, they had to go to work. I think that really, gave me some perspective.So whenever I feel lazy in my own work, I'm like, Oh my God, remember your parents. So that's always something I feel a little bit guilty. I'm like, Oh, I need to be as hardworking as my parents. And
[00:07:47] Rori: We should, we should return that to this idea in another episode too. Like the idea of hard work and also taking care of ourselves. But go on.
[00:07:54] Emilia: And I would say community. I don't think I know how to be alone. And I think that comes because, you know, I have, I come from a big family. My parents always had people over on the weekends they would just come to eat, to talk, just being around people I really enjoy. I try to also, enjoy being around the people that I work with.
I like to collaborate. I don't like to work by myself and I like to collaborate with people I like. I like to collaborate with you. I like to collaborate with my colleagues, Dr. Maria Avilargos and Flora Jay. I love making science with people I like.
[00:08:39] Rori: I mean, you've done very well with that. Like that's been a good thing for you in your academic life. You and Maria and Flora together got the Human Frontiers Research Grant, and that's huge.
[00:08:50] Emilia: Yeah, I try to find opportunities to work that help me maintain the communities that I already have is something you and I have in common. Obviously, we're doing this podcast together like working with Rori!
[00:09:03] Rori: Working with Emilia is a dream,
[00:09:04] Emilia: What about your upbringing has helped you?
[00:09:07] Rori: I grew up in a big family too, and I also don't like being alone. So, you know, creating a lab that I love and I love working with is important to me. Doing collaborations with you and with other people is important to me. But another way that I grew up that is not obviously a match for academia, but I think it actually really is, is that I'm a military brat. My dad was in the Navy and, even though they're, you know, politically divergent, I think that military culture and academia are very similar there's the culture of moving frequently, obviously, the idea that you make friends through your work and you kind of circle through a very strong sense of hierarchy, let's be real. Even if academia kind of doesn't fully embrace that, it's very much embedded and so I think growing up in a military family the culture of academia felt a little familiar to me actually, and that made it easier for me to learn to navigate and it also made it easier for me to figure out the parts that I, that don't align with how I want to live with my life and figure out how to work around them.
[00:10:15] Emilia: that's interesting and something I would like to hear more about for sure. What are these workarounds?
[00:10:20] Rori: Okay. Okay. We'll have to do some more Science Wise episodes then.
Thank you so much for chatting with me, Emilia. And thank you to Francine for all of the pearls of wisdom.
[00:10:29] Emilia: Thank you, Francine and Rori. Thank you for making community with me.
[00:10:33] Rori: It is my pleasure, Emilia. You know that. Okay, everybody. We'll catch you next episode.