Season 2 |
Bonus Episode S2Bonus7: How to Seek Knowledge and Adventure in Science Work
[00:00:00] RORI: Hey Emilia.
[00:00:00] EMILIA: Hi Rori.
[00:00:01] RORI: I can't believe we got to talk with Dr. Dawn Wright.
She's like incredibly accomplished.
[00:00:08] EMILIA: I think she's the only person so far that we've interviewed who's been interviewed by so many people and news outlets.
[00:00:16] RORI: You know, she's incredibly accomplished. She like has been to the deepest place on earth where only 22 people in the whole world have been and she's still so like approachable and kind.
[00:00:25] EMILIA: Yeah. She's so open, you know, to share her stories and it's very admirable.
[00:00:31] RORI: Well, today we are very excited to give you listeners a few lessons that we learned from our conversation with Dr. Dawn Wright.
Our first lesson is that it's okay to try something different and to be open to what you might learn in that process.
[00:00:50] EMILIA: Yeah, I mean, like starting with her upbringing and her mother who was so adventurous.
[00:00:57] RORI: Yeah.
Oh, Jean, right. Her entire family was from Baltimore for as many generations as well, other places in Maryland for as many generations as they can go back.
And then Jean was like, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna leave Baltimore. Not even just a little, I'm gonna go to uh, well, first DC and then Chicago and then South Carolina and Saskatchewan.
[00:01:18] EMILIA: Yeah. And so she had that adventurous spirit, and I think Dawn probably inherited some of that from her mom.
[00:01:26] RORI: I think so for sure.
And they were impacted by the places they lived. Like they lived in Hawaii for 10 years or so. It sounds like it was instrumental in Dawn's developing scientific interests.
[00:01:37] EMILIA: And I think that's because they were not afraid of taking on the next step.
[00:01:41] RORI: Yes.
[00:01:41] EMILIA: On their next journey. And so Hawaii was the inspiration for, for.
What she ended up focusing in,
[00:01:48] RORI: Dawn was so very much inspired by her mom and her mom's adventurous spirit. Even though like her mom, it was not at all a scientist. I mean, she was actually an academic, but she wasn't a scientist at all. And I think this is another example of how aspiring scientists can be inspired and supported by their family who doesn't necessarily have that experience. But has so many other experiences and skills that bring us to where we're trying to get to.
[00:02:14] EMILIA: Yeah, and I mean, one of the things that her mom did that I thought was really courageous, um, you know, they had established a life in Maui, but then at some point they decided to move back to Maryland and her mom gave up tenure at the community college, which is, you know, we, academics, we see tenure as something really precious and she, she gave that up.
[00:02:38] RORI: It's super bold to pursue what she wanted to do. She was willing to take the next step. Emilia, can I talk about my mom for a minute here?
[00:02:45] EMILIA: Please do.
[00:02:46] RORI: So, when we were talking with Dawn, I was thinking about my mom a lot, who was an incredible inspiration to me. Like Dawn, she grew up with Jacques Custo and was like really excited about the natural world.
But when she was thinking about a career for herself, it felt like the options available to her. We're kind of these pink collar jobs of secretary, nurse, or teacher. She chose teacher because she loved learning. She was like really excited about science and I feel like I completely benefit from my mom's love of learning.
I mean, she was literally an elementary school teacher, so like education was like really supported. I was given a lot of opportunities in my youth and I was able to do things that she didn't have. The opportunity to like actually pursue science as a career. When I was hearing Dawn talk about her mom, I was just thinking about how in so many ways we stand on the shoulders of the people who support us and we're able to do we more because of our additional opportunities.
[00:03:50] EMILIA: I mean, a hundred percent, I think it's hard to pinpoint exactly how those those influence you, but that influence is there and I think just. The love of learning is so important in science and in academic careers.
[00:04:05] RORI: Oh yeah. Okay. Lesson number two. Seek out advisors who regularly provide feedback.
[00:04:11] EMILIA: Yeah or direction.
[00:04:12] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:13] EMILIA: And regularly. I think that's an important word, regularly.
[00:04:17] RORI: Yeah. Because her master's advisor like, just gave her like a lot of rope.
[00:04:21] EMILIA: Yes. It's important for mentees or, you know grad students to make sure that they're doing work, but that they meet their advisors often.
[00:04:32] RORI: Yeah.
[00:04:32] EMILIA: And not wait like a whole semester to meet them.
[00:04:36] RORI: I mean, the purpose of having an advisor is to give you some guidance to let you know if you're kind of getting off track or your ideas aren't gonna come to fruition, and to, you know, connect you with resources. And if you have an absentee or an advisor who doesn't actually take the time to give you that feedback and direction, you're missing out.
It's not like you're supposed to just provide them with a completed project. You're supposed to get some guidance. Dawn really did not get that in her Master's thesis,
[00:05:06] EMILIA: but she did something that was really clever.
[00:05:08] RORI: Yes.
[00:05:08] EMILIA: Um, she wasn't getting feedback or guidance from her advisor, but she was very clever and she reached out to PhD students.
Other PhD students, yeah. Who were. Senior PhD students and she managed to get some, um, some support from them and feedback.
[00:05:26] RORI: As I recall, they were even in like a different department from her, but she realized that they knew something. They knew some techniques that she really wanted to learn, and she got this kind of like near peer mentorship from them, which is, I agree.
It's really clever and if you find yourself in a position where your advisor is not giving you all the feedback that you need, then. Seeking out some informal mentors like she did who are in this case, near peer.
[00:05:50] EMILIA: And another lesson I was so impressed by how Dawn had, she always had this vision. She knew she wanted to be a scientist.
She knew she wanted to do something in oceanography.
[00:06:03] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:04] EMILIA: And I thought it was pretty amazing that developed so early on. And so she kept her eye on this vision, but she had some flexibility about her next. Steps, which I thought was also really important.
[00:06:17] RORI: It, it's remarkable. Yeah. Like she was so specifically interested in marine geology.
Dawn Wright loves marine geology so deeply and has since she was a kid and she was like, I was in the ocean in the surf and I saw the rocks and that's what I'm excited about. But then even when we talked with her about when, back when she was in high school and she was actually like accomplished in several ways at that point.
In science, of course, but she was also creating her own history classes, and she was maybe gonna go to the Olympics for the long jump. She was like an incredible athlete, but she was just so clear. She had a clear vision like, I'm sticking with science. That's my number one love. I'm doing this other things. But science is where it's at.
[00:06:55] EMILIA: Going back to the flexibility, right? That. We know that she did not have the best guidance during her Master's thesis, but she was well positioned after that. She, she did receive her master's though, and then she took on another, another role instead of going directly into the PhD program, she decided that she wanted to she called it a gap year.
[00:07:19] RORI: Um, a gap three years,
[00:07:20] EMILIA: which ended up being three years. But it gave her the opportunity not only to get hands-on experiences, uh, she was working on these large vessels that were collecting lots of data, traveling to lots of different places.
[00:07:34] RORI: Yeah, I mean, let's be clear, like gap year.
Sometimes I think people think gap year and you're like chilling or something like that. Dawn's quote unquote gap year or gap three years. She was a marine lab tech. And so all of the hands-on experience that she didn't get in her PhD. Because remember her PhD was actually really data-based. She wasn't like going on expeditions.
[00:07:53] EMILIA: She said she was working 12 hour shifts.
[00:07:55] RORI: Oh my God.
[00:07:56] EMILIA: Uh, which is amazing. And then, you know, during her time off, she would spend time in lots of different countries,
[00:08:03] RORI: Uhhuh.
[00:08:04] EMILIA: But I think this gave her time to think about her next steps. Yeah. And so having that space to think about where do I wanna go from here can be really important, not having to rush through the next step.
[00:08:17] RORI: I agree. She was flexible about her next steps instead of getting it right into the PhD, she got herself some more experience and took some time to think about what she wanted to get her PhD in. And I think this, we see this again later in her career and I wish that we had had more time to. Chat with Don about this part of her career too.
But you know, she was at Oregon State as a faculty for 15 years. She got tenure there and then she left tenure and left the position to become chief scientist of Esri. And that's also a very bold move that I think she thought about deeply. She had her vision of the scientific research she wanted to perform, and she came to the realization that she would be more able to do that, uh, Esri than.
In continuing in her position at Oregon State. And so she was flexible again, and she thought, okay, I'm gonna make that move. I'm gonna take the bold move to follow my vision, even though it's not the specific next step that I had, maybe once imagined.
[00:09:14] EMILIA: I sense her enthusiasm for her science.
[00:09:17] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:17] EMILIA: Always.
[00:09:17] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:18] EMILIA: And also for sharing. The science. I think it's, it's quite remarkable everything that she does to share and and remaining focused on the science. It's really remarkable.
[00:09:31] RORI: Truly, truly, truly. Well, thanks for chatting, Emilia. Thank you Don Wright, for everything that you have done in this world. So grateful that you are one of our predecessors.
[00:09:43] EMILIA: And it was amazing to learn from you and I'm still afraid of going into the deep ocean. Uh, I'm jealous that you got to see some new species. Truly impressive.
[00:09:54] RORI: Yes. Okay, catch you next time.
[00:00:00] EMILIA: Hi Rori.
[00:00:01] RORI: I can't believe we got to talk with Dr. Dawn Wright.
She's like incredibly accomplished.
[00:00:08] EMILIA: I think she's the only person so far that we've interviewed who's been interviewed by so many people and news outlets.
[00:00:16] RORI: You know, she's incredibly accomplished. She like has been to the deepest place on earth where only 22 people in the whole world have been and she's still so like approachable and kind.
[00:00:25] EMILIA: Yeah. She's so open, you know, to share her stories and it's very admirable.
[00:00:31] RORI: Well, today we are very excited to give you listeners a few lessons that we learned from our conversation with Dr. Dawn Wright.
Our first lesson is that it's okay to try something different and to be open to what you might learn in that process.
[00:00:50] EMILIA: Yeah, I mean, like starting with her upbringing and her mother who was so adventurous.
[00:00:57] RORI: Yeah.
Oh, Jean, right. Her entire family was from Baltimore for as many generations as well, other places in Maryland for as many generations as they can go back.
And then Jean was like, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna leave Baltimore. Not even just a little, I'm gonna go to uh, well, first DC and then Chicago and then South Carolina and Saskatchewan.
[00:01:18] EMILIA: Yeah. And so she had that adventurous spirit, and I think Dawn probably inherited some of that from her mom.
[00:01:26] RORI: I think so for sure.
And they were impacted by the places they lived. Like they lived in Hawaii for 10 years or so. It sounds like it was instrumental in Dawn's developing scientific interests.
[00:01:37] EMILIA: And I think that's because they were not afraid of taking on the next step.
[00:01:41] RORI: Yes.
[00:01:41] EMILIA: On their next journey. And so Hawaii was the inspiration for, for.
What she ended up focusing in,
[00:01:48] RORI: Dawn was so very much inspired by her mom and her mom's adventurous spirit. Even though like her mom, it was not at all a scientist. I mean, she was actually an academic, but she wasn't a scientist at all. And I think this is another example of how aspiring scientists can be inspired and supported by their family who doesn't necessarily have that experience. But has so many other experiences and skills that bring us to where we're trying to get to.
[00:02:14] EMILIA: Yeah, and I mean, one of the things that her mom did that I thought was really courageous, um, you know, they had established a life in Maui, but then at some point they decided to move back to Maryland and her mom gave up tenure at the community college, which is, you know, we, academics, we see tenure as something really precious and she, she gave that up.
[00:02:38] RORI: It's super bold to pursue what she wanted to do. She was willing to take the next step. Emilia, can I talk about my mom for a minute here?
[00:02:45] EMILIA: Please do.
[00:02:46] RORI: So, when we were talking with Dawn, I was thinking about my mom a lot, who was an incredible inspiration to me. Like Dawn, she grew up with Jacques Custo and was like really excited about the natural world.
But when she was thinking about a career for herself, it felt like the options available to her. We're kind of these pink collar jobs of secretary, nurse, or teacher. She chose teacher because she loved learning. She was like really excited about science and I feel like I completely benefit from my mom's love of learning.
I mean, she was literally an elementary school teacher, so like education was like really supported. I was given a lot of opportunities in my youth and I was able to do things that she didn't have. The opportunity to like actually pursue science as a career. When I was hearing Dawn talk about her mom, I was just thinking about how in so many ways we stand on the shoulders of the people who support us and we're able to do we more because of our additional opportunities.
[00:03:50] EMILIA: I mean, a hundred percent, I think it's hard to pinpoint exactly how those those influence you, but that influence is there and I think just. The love of learning is so important in science and in academic careers.
[00:04:05] RORI: Oh yeah. Okay. Lesson number two. Seek out advisors who regularly provide feedback.
[00:04:11] EMILIA: Yeah or direction.
[00:04:12] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:13] EMILIA: And regularly. I think that's an important word, regularly.
[00:04:17] RORI: Yeah. Because her master's advisor like, just gave her like a lot of rope.
[00:04:21] EMILIA: Yes. It's important for mentees or, you know grad students to make sure that they're doing work, but that they meet their advisors often.
[00:04:32] RORI: Yeah.
[00:04:32] EMILIA: And not wait like a whole semester to meet them.
[00:04:36] RORI: I mean, the purpose of having an advisor is to give you some guidance to let you know if you're kind of getting off track or your ideas aren't gonna come to fruition, and to, you know, connect you with resources. And if you have an absentee or an advisor who doesn't actually take the time to give you that feedback and direction, you're missing out.
It's not like you're supposed to just provide them with a completed project. You're supposed to get some guidance. Dawn really did not get that in her Master's thesis,
[00:05:06] EMILIA: but she did something that was really clever.
[00:05:08] RORI: Yes.
[00:05:08] EMILIA: Um, she wasn't getting feedback or guidance from her advisor, but she was very clever and she reached out to PhD students.
Other PhD students, yeah. Who were. Senior PhD students and she managed to get some, um, some support from them and feedback.
[00:05:26] RORI: As I recall, they were even in like a different department from her, but she realized that they knew something. They knew some techniques that she really wanted to learn, and she got this kind of like near peer mentorship from them, which is, I agree.
It's really clever and if you find yourself in a position where your advisor is not giving you all the feedback that you need, then. Seeking out some informal mentors like she did who are in this case, near peer.
[00:05:50] EMILIA: And another lesson I was so impressed by how Dawn had, she always had this vision. She knew she wanted to be a scientist.
She knew she wanted to do something in oceanography.
[00:06:03] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:04] EMILIA: And I thought it was pretty amazing that developed so early on. And so she kept her eye on this vision, but she had some flexibility about her next. Steps, which I thought was also really important.
[00:06:17] RORI: It, it's remarkable. Yeah. Like she was so specifically interested in marine geology.
Dawn Wright loves marine geology so deeply and has since she was a kid and she was like, I was in the ocean in the surf and I saw the rocks and that's what I'm excited about. But then even when we talked with her about when, back when she was in high school and she was actually like accomplished in several ways at that point.
In science, of course, but she was also creating her own history classes, and she was maybe gonna go to the Olympics for the long jump. She was like an incredible athlete, but she was just so clear. She had a clear vision like, I'm sticking with science. That's my number one love. I'm doing this other things. But science is where it's at.
[00:06:55] EMILIA: Going back to the flexibility, right? That. We know that she did not have the best guidance during her Master's thesis, but she was well positioned after that. She, she did receive her master's though, and then she took on another, another role instead of going directly into the PhD program, she decided that she wanted to she called it a gap year.
[00:07:19] RORI: Um, a gap three years,
[00:07:20] EMILIA: which ended up being three years. But it gave her the opportunity not only to get hands-on experiences, uh, she was working on these large vessels that were collecting lots of data, traveling to lots of different places.
[00:07:34] RORI: Yeah, I mean, let's be clear, like gap year.
Sometimes I think people think gap year and you're like chilling or something like that. Dawn's quote unquote gap year or gap three years. She was a marine lab tech. And so all of the hands-on experience that she didn't get in her PhD. Because remember her PhD was actually really data-based. She wasn't like going on expeditions.
[00:07:53] EMILIA: She said she was working 12 hour shifts.
[00:07:55] RORI: Oh my God.
[00:07:56] EMILIA: Uh, which is amazing. And then, you know, during her time off, she would spend time in lots of different countries,
[00:08:03] RORI: Uhhuh.
[00:08:04] EMILIA: But I think this gave her time to think about her next steps. Yeah. And so having that space to think about where do I wanna go from here can be really important, not having to rush through the next step.
[00:08:17] RORI: I agree. She was flexible about her next steps instead of getting it right into the PhD, she got herself some more experience and took some time to think about what she wanted to get her PhD in. And I think this, we see this again later in her career and I wish that we had had more time to. Chat with Don about this part of her career too.
But you know, she was at Oregon State as a faculty for 15 years. She got tenure there and then she left tenure and left the position to become chief scientist of Esri. And that's also a very bold move that I think she thought about deeply. She had her vision of the scientific research she wanted to perform, and she came to the realization that she would be more able to do that, uh, Esri than.
In continuing in her position at Oregon State. And so she was flexible again, and she thought, okay, I'm gonna make that move. I'm gonna take the bold move to follow my vision, even though it's not the specific next step that I had, maybe once imagined.
[00:09:14] EMILIA: I sense her enthusiasm for her science.
[00:09:17] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:17] EMILIA: Always.
[00:09:17] RORI: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:18] EMILIA: And also for sharing. The science. I think it's, it's quite remarkable everything that she does to share and and remaining focused on the science. It's really remarkable.
[00:09:31] RORI: Truly, truly, truly. Well, thanks for chatting, Emilia. Thank you Don Wright, for everything that you have done in this world. So grateful that you are one of our predecessors.
[00:09:43] EMILIA: And it was amazing to learn from you and I'm still afraid of going into the deep ocean. Uh, I'm jealous that you got to see some new species. Truly impressive.
[00:09:54] RORI: Yes. Okay, catch you next time.